Nov 03 2006
Kent Hovind Off to Jail for a Few Hundred Years
[UPDATE: My position on Kent Hovind mellowed somewhat since I first posted this. I no longer think that he intentionally misleads people; he is simply a True Believer in his cause. I think his interpretation of Scripture is wrong regarding the age of the earth and whether or not to pay taxes, but I don't think he is willfully deceitful.]
[ORIGINAL POST HERE] For those you not familiar with the Kent Hovind, he is/was a somewhat prominent Young Earth “theologian”. He got his masters degree and a doctorate in education from my kids’ grade school. No kidding - well, sort of. Patriot University was affiliated with Hilltop Baptist School in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and is accredited only by the American Accrediting Association of Theological Institutions, an organization that provides accreditation for a $100 charge. Patriot University has since moved to Alamosa, Colorado, but Hovind is off to the hoosegow.
From the Pensacola News Journal:
Jury deliberations took about three hours.
A federal jury has convicted Kent Hovind and his wife, Jo, of tax fraud.
Hovind faces a maximum of 288 years in prison. His wife faces up to 225 years. Her charges include aiding and abetting her husband with 44 counts of evading bank-reporting requirements.
In closing arguments this morning, Alan Richey, Kent Hovind’s defense attorney, said the Pensacola evangelist was never notified by the IRS that he was violating a specific law by not withholding and paying employment taxes on workers at the Dinosaur Adventure Land and Creative [sic]Science Evangelism, both of which he founded and operates.
Hovind also believes that as workers of God, he and all employees of the theme park and his ministry are exempt from paying taxes.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Michelle Heldmyer said the case was not about religion but about paying taxes.
Here are the gory details:
From 2000 to 2003, more than $1.1 million was taken from the Creation Science Evangelism accounts in the form of checks made out to “cash,” most of which were signed by Jo Hovind.
Most of the checks were made out for $9,500. The Internal Revenue Service alleges that this was a way for the Hovinds to avoid a bank-filed currency transaction report, which is mandatory for cash transactions of $10,000 or more.
On the day the IRS searched the Hovind home, Kent Hovind withdrew $70,000 from the Creation Science Evangelism account. Half in a check; the other in cash.
Guess he forgot about the “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” bit and the whole Ananias and Sapphira deal (Acts 5:1-11).
November 4th, 2006 at 00:18 am
Crooks get what they deserve. Thanks for posting this, it made my day!
November 6th, 2006 at 17:50 pm
I know kent and jo hovind personally . Jo attended second baptist church in peoria il and my sisters and i were raised in the church along with her and her brother. She came from a wonderful christian background . I do not condone what they did but feel for them . They should of known what would happen if they got caught. I think jo has been brainwashed by her husband and his beliefs .some people take the bible too far and tax thing was one of them .Please pray for kent and jo that god will forgive them .
November 6th, 2006 at 21:41 pm
Amen and amen, Dianne. As with Ted Haggard, Kent Hovind is man of God (I would hope) who wandered far astray. The difference, I think, is that Ted Haggard had the grace to admit his errors before God and man. I pray for both of these men, their famililes and those who were affected by their actions.
November 12th, 2006 at 18:25 pm
Although i think the ministry will suffer because of this, I don’t think they did anything (biblically) wrong. If you study history, the income tax was enacted to support WWI. It was intended to end after the war was over, but the government can’t give up what it gets its hands on. The government is wrong in many cases… It isn’t the “be all end all” authority. I’m proud that he was man enough to stand up to the government. We should be allowed to deny the government our money, when it is just handing it out to people for free, who don’t want to work. Bravo - Dr. Hovind.
November 12th, 2006 at 20:45 pm
We’re not talking about a moral dispute about whether it’s right to pay taxes - remember rendering unto Caesar? Hovind stole $1.1 million from his ministry $9500 bucks at a time or more. He’s not a hero, he’s a lying thief.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:12 am
The law states that the limit was $10,000.00 they withdrew $9500.00. The did as the law required. If the law states that the speed limit is 55 MPH and I travel 54 MPH reguardless of my intention, am I braking the law? Hovind withdrew all kinds of money from his account. When has it been a crime to withdraw any amount from your own account whether it be your personal, business or ministry account? Has the money been made illegally? Is selling Cd’s, DVD’s that you produce illegal? Is charging for speaking engagements illegal? Is Dr. Hovind the Al Capone of the millenium? Deal with the facts. If the 44 counts were one for each time he withdrew $9500.00 that is a lame straw man argument. How many checks have you bounced? If each one was a “count” how many accounts would you have against you? Dr. Hovind stands for what he believes is right. He has never hidden his agenda. He has been public and forthright. He has even documented his beliefs on his DVD’s. He has not lied about his policies. How many have you have cheated even one dollar on your taxes? Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. John 7:24 Dr. Hovind is not the coward that some of the posted comments lead him to be. At least he would sign his last name to any comment or belief that he has.
Before you judge Dr. Hovind on rendering unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar’s, perhaps you had compare apples to apples. Remember the Bible states that with the same measure you judge others, you also will be judged.
Sincerely and most respectfully.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:31 am
The man is a thief! Only God knows his heart, but he’s been caught robbing from his own ministry. This isn’t some aspect of spiritual warfare - he’s already lost that battle.
There are two issues (three if you count misleading people on the age of the earth): 1) should we or should we not pay taxes, and 2) is it morally defensible to steal.
For the first, Jesus said render unto Caesar, so give the government what you owe to it.
For the second, I don’t see how you can make a case for robbing a Christian ministry.
December 9th, 2006 at 15:38 pm
Isn’t anyone wondering why there are so many charges on Dr Hovind? Why they are all attacking him with the Tax thing while no one is attacking his stand against the theory of evolution? Why everyone is against him and saying the bad things, not the good things as well, about him? He has proven a bad theory to be wrong, and this is what he gets in return? He is an interesting man, no one can deny. He said that the taxes are going to publishing lies. Isn’t it worth listening to this interesting guy? And I hate to see that there are some christians who hate him, God will see and judge. He reminds me of a man who lived 2000 years before, and his name is Paul. Paul was also arrested and killed. Imagine those people abandon him like I see now people abandoning Dr. Hovind. The most funny thing is that there are people attacking his deploma. Well, Dr. Hovind made studies for over 30 years about just the Creation and Evolution. A man gets a Doctor degree in 7 years. How funny. No body was even bothered that Darwin, the god of the evolutionists, had his only degree in Theology, and spent most of his time collecting bugs. I am really moved by the care of all those who are lost and sitting lazily at home doing nothing but commenting negatively on Dr. Hovind who never stopped serving the Lord. Take care and God bless who love him.
December 9th, 2006 at 16:12 pm
There are charges against him because he’s been judged to be a thief, not because he’s doing something noble. His doctorate was from a mail order diploma mill, and he apparently stopped serving the Lord when his own “ministry” and love of his own voice took precedence over reaching people for the Lord.
December 10th, 2006 at 07:17 am
Would anyone tell me who is the alternative for Dr. Hovind? Is there anyone taking his place or is it everyone happy that no one will be attacking Evolution again? God will judge him if he is bad and the ministry is not about him, but are we letting this ministry die and just be attacking instead of building? would anyone let me know for sure if this ministry is kept alive or the devil has won, and sadly with support of some lazy christians?
There is a site the attacks Dr. Hovind, but his particular site said that Dr. Hovind’s diploma university is not a diploma mill. Mr. Steve, did you read my comment about Dr. Hovind’s diploma? I guess not, why bother. If Dr. Hovind did something bad, then why not commenting also on the good things he did?
December 10th, 2006 at 10:00 am
Samer,
He got his “doctorate” from my kids’ grade school. Patriot University was run out of an office in Hilltop Baptist School in Colorado Springs and has since moved into a trailer in southern Colorado. I’ve read his “doctoral dissertation,” and it’s full of plagiarized passages. Even within the document whole paragraphs and pages are copied from one section to another.
As for no one taking up his mantle, take a look at Reasons.Org, which is Hugh Ross’s site. He does a great job debunking evolutionary theory. He comes from an Old Earth perspective, but there are numerous other Young Earth ministries as well.
People treat Hovind as some second messiah, which is a very dangerous thing. There is only one Messiah and anything or anyone which detracts from Christ or sets itself up against Him deserves the judgment he will receive.
December 11th, 2006 at 20:30 pm
ONLY JESUS CHRIST KNOWS THE HEART OF THIS GODLY MAN, NOW IF YOU WANT TO REDICULE HIM, FINE, BUT SIN IS SIN AND WE ARE ALL FULL OF IT SO LET GOD HANDLE THIS OUT. IF GOD WANTS THE MINISTRY WIPED OUT THEN HE WILL DO IT, BUT AS FAR AS NOW HIS WILL IS TO CONTINUE THIS MINISTRY AND PRAY FOR KEN AND HIS FAMILY.
December 11th, 2006 at 20:40 pm
Jorge,
I missed the “ridicule him” part. You’re absolutely right that only God knows his heart and that we should certainly pray for any of God’s servants who have fallen.
December 23rd, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Since when have churches that are unincorporateed (non-state churches acting as the Bible and Constitution give permission and command) been required to pay taxes? Did Kent do have something in disorder with his unincorporation status that allowed this arrest?
December 23rd, 2006 at 15:34 pm
They are not required to pay taxes, except that employees must pay taxes on their wages. Hovind was also skimming money off the top for his own use — against the law in any state.
December 25th, 2006 at 23:48 pm
I think that some of you should do a little research, and google Mcfadden 1934. Check into whether there is actually a law that backs the IRS taxing your income you gain from wages and labor. If you wish to you will find that there is not a law backing the IRS, but the guns they have are their law.
I don’t say that this makes Hovind innoccent because I haven’t seen the particulars of his case. Check out the movie freedom to fascism at http://www.freedomtofascism.com
Oh and only foolish people use the Bible to judge. So the one who wrote the article should see if there isn’t a timber in your eye
December 26th, 2006 at 00:42 am
Oh and only foolish people use the Bible to judge. So the one who wrote the article should see if there isn’t a timber in your eye
Hmm. I see the word of God as authoritative. Paul told Timothy that “[all] Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Tim 3:16-17)
And you’re right - I’m always on the lookout for Plank-Eye Syndrome.
January 1st, 2007 at 23:37 pm
Hovind is a 3rd rate con-artist… Prison is where he belongs.
January 3rd, 2007 at 08:53 am
Well first of all Steve you cant call him a thief if he runs the church the money came from. 2nd You have no idea what the money was used for, he could of fed homeless kids or could of bought crack you nor I no what he did with it. 3rd people like you are so blind to see what is really going on here. Dr. Hovind is causing a stir and some people dont like it. So they are doing whatever they can to shut him up and and destoy his credibility this is the only way he can do it.
January 3rd, 2007 at 10:44 am
Hmm. Nice try, thanks for playing. The rules are very clear when you are dealing with large sums of money. Any transaction greater above $10K must be reported to the IRS. From the original article:
This is not about spiritual warfare. How about this one?
Or this one:
Render unto Caesar and be done with it.
January 3rd, 2007 at 12:07 pm
well hmmmm…. let me see. Mabey you should check and see if medicare, Social Security and federal income tax are constitutional, There not the goverment dooped the people into thinking that we have to pay it. He is standing up to them and not paying just like we all should. The theme park was built on religious terms, so it dose not need a state or federal permit to be there. And besides how many how many congressmen do you think pay more taxes than you do. answere not many. Do you no why its because they no all the loopholes and they wright all the tax laws. Billion dollar corporations rip the government off with more taxes than we could ever think. The reason the gov. dosent do anything to them is because they have the lawers and books to back them up.
January 3rd, 2007 at 14:03 pm
The theme park was built on religious terms, so it dose not need a state or federal permit to be there.
Actually it does, religious or not. Even a church must have building permits.
Well first of all Steve you cant call him a thief if he runs the church the money came from.
That’s a fun thought, but wrong. It’s called embezzlement. Even if he could prove that it was used strictly for ministry purposes, he misled his congregation, the ministry and — oh, by the way — the IRS. The Word says, “Use honest scales and honest weights, an honest ephah and an honest hin. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt.” (Lev 19:35) This means that we are to deal honestly with others. Hovind must have missed this point in his reading of Scripture..
January 3rd, 2007 at 22:19 pm
Embezzlement come on you act like the guy was living in a 10 million dollar house and was spinding the money on whores. The guys from Enron got a pardon and do you know how many peoples lives they ruined. People that put there whole lives into that comepany. And the only people that he was dishonest with were the IRS not his people or god. Whats your problem with this guy do you think he a quack, do you think that his teachings are false.For someone who quoats the bible your pretty damm judgmental.
January 3rd, 2007 at 22:42 pm
And the only people that he was dishonest with were the IRS not his people or god.
Jesus said ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ (Matt 25:40) Even to the IRS.
As Christians, we should want to live in glass houses. Hovind cheated and stole money, misrepresenting his ministry both to the people who trusted him and to the IRS. That’s not Christian behavior.
His actions speak for themselves. If I come across as being judgmental, to him or to anyone else, I apologize. It’s God’s place to judge. That said, we are still called to be discerning and to flee from sin.
January 4th, 2007 at 02:06 am
well you people have thought alot about mr hovind.hes really a man of god and what he says is true.the evolution thing is very wrong and our educated people know about it.the government knows about it, but some of us really dont knows whats going on around us.things are getting crazy, thats all im gonna say.evolution is a trick by people to keep us from believing in god.plain and simple.anyone that reads this should get some of hovinds tapes and books or better yet study what he says for yourself.he wronged no one, if you look we are not supposed to pay taxes.but with that said he messed up, u cant run the government but what he did was noble and he took the money out to pay his workers.he didnt pay taxes cause he said he works for god.i just hope we have the courage to stand up for god when the time comes,because it will soon come.i hope you that believe in god get ready.god bless.
January 4th, 2007 at 08:21 am
Who did he still money from HE PAID PEOPLE WHO WORKED FOR HIS MINISTRY. Where was the thievery, please tell me so I can shut up. Please tell me what this man did that was unlawful to god and why he should go to jail for 10,000 years.See its people like you that dont understand somthing.The reason we get traffic tickits is so we can support our highways and such. Well if nobody sped or broke the law were would the money come from. Just like the IRS has no right to take our money the way they do. My money is my own and not thiers.I pay around 21% in taxes after I get my check and the state also charges me 8% on every dollar I spend. Thats almost 30% of my income gone. They our the theves not people like Hovind. The gov. needs money to support there wars and there toys so they take it from us.I tell you like this if only the people who support war were the only ones who had to pay for it, it wouldent last very long.
January 4th, 2007 at 09:28 am
You guys are missing the point. Only God knows this man’s heart and I pray that this experience draws him and his family closer to the Lord, but the you judge the tree by the fruit. He’s committed crimes and has surrounded himself with criminals. He doesn’t answer to me, but he will have to answer to the Lord.
February 26th, 2007 at 05:01 am
I believe that Kent was right in what he said, but I do believe he should have paid his taxes. Kent -v- IRS. Who’s gonna win? Bit of a no brainer really.
What he should have done is campaigned for his cause and written letters etc. but still paid his taxes until such a time as they made him exempt.
People who say things like “Crooks get what they deserve. Thanks for posting this, it made my day!” or “Hovind is a 3rd rate con-artist… Prison is where he belongs” are really not thinking about what is actually happening. Kent believed he was right (rightly or wrongly) and now he is in prison, and his wife will probably be soon too.
Rather than people pouring scorn on them, I think they need prayer from us all.
February 26th, 2007 at 08:22 am
Agreed. I think he was fully aware of the consequences of his actions, so a prison sentence is probably deserved. Please keep him and his family in prayer.
February 26th, 2007 at 13:26 pm
“People who say things like…are really not thinking about what is actually happening. Kent believed he was right (rightly or wrongly) and now he is in prison, and his wife will probably be soon too.”
I certainly was thinking about what I said, and he definitely belongs to be in jail. Did he claim religious exemption before he defrauded those who contributed to him? Did he try by any legal channels to contest that he should pay taxes? On the other hand, if he simply thought the law was on his side, then he and his wife were deluded. The more logical conclusion is that it was a specific, intentional dishonest act, justified after the fact with religious jargon like everything else he does. “Pouring scorn” on someone who intentionally did something that is obviously wrong is part of the punishment. As long as you continue to apologize for him, blinded by your support for other statements he has made, it discredits you in the eyes of those you might otherwise like to convince on other arguments.
March 1st, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Is Jo Hovind ever going to be sentenced? Understand she is still trying to weasel her way out of doing any Time
March 14th, 2007 at 10:50 am
I just found out about this whole Kent Hovind thing today, and I have been reading these blogs.
THe fact is … everyone here has a point, some truth to their comments. The Founders never intended for there to be income tax (because it penalizes our productivity, and rewards someone else (the government), not ourselves, for our own labor) … unlike sales taxes, particularly luxury sales taxes … which would tax, or penalize only the consumption of material things. Income tax was never made lawful and/or untilized until around 1910 (and I am sure that many in government were screaming against its implementation) … and sure enough, it has increased ridiculously since that time.
>
Rapists, child molesters, and murderers have gotten probation … yes, probation … in comparison to Dr.Hovind’s crime. That represents the warped, perverted system we live under today.
Kent Hovind needs our prayers, and so does his family. I pray that he gets out of jail soon, learns his lesson, grows up in the areas he needs to, admits his failures … and gets back to debunking evolution again.
March 15th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Dr. Hovind was right — see the following:
Biblical Government – united States of America style
When Paul the Apostle wrote to the church at Rome Caesar was the dictator in power over the Roman Empire. In the united States of America the first three words of the empowering
document, The Constitution, are “We The People”. Therefore, applying and fitting the words of Paul from his day into our nation today Romans 13 should read:
Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto We The People under God. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be, We The People, are ordained of God.
>
“To him who knows to do right and does not do it, to him it is sin.” James 4:17
June 8th, 2007 at 23:30 pm
Some thoughts:
Romans 13 has NOTHING to do with civil governments of man! Period! It pertains to church government only. This is one of the biggest heresies ever and has resulted in most of the church debasing itself into a cheap propaganda whore for government. (i.e. the great apostasy)
The 1st Amendment says government has no say over the church! i.e. Butt Out!
There is NO law making anyone liable for the alleged income tax. It is nothing more than Al Capone with a badge. The code also does NOT define the word ‘income’. How do ‘Christians’ swear under ‘penalty of perjury’ to having any ‘income’ when it is not even defined?
Silly me, here I thought the church was supposed to be the Body of Christ NOT a cheap piece of paper government corporation. Isn’t Dr. Hovind part of the Body of Christ and therefore a church? Who says he has to have worship services every week? He debunks a myth from Satan designed to lead people away from God. His service is needed.
America’s Founders revolted against this very type of thing except today it is much worse then at that time. Are they sinners damned to hell under Romans 13?
If Romans 13 says kneel and play suckie face to Caeser then why was the Apostle Paul killed by Caesar for being an apparent free propaganda schill for the empire?
‘Render unto Caeser’ means the specific Roman Emperor at the time Jesus spoke. The sola scriptura crowd insist everything is to be interpreted literally so question, since Caesar has been dead about 2000 years, how does one go about rendering to a dead person?
June 9th, 2007 at 08:50 am
It has everything to do with the civil governments of the era - and today. Or, rather, our proper relationship to them (vice our relationship to God.) You’re cherry-picking exegetical styles to suit your argument. That kind of hyper-literal interpretation of Scripture (i.e., the text only applied that that particular emperor) could lead you to assume that Jesus’ words weren’t meant for us, because He was talking to His apostles at the time, or to the woman at the well or to the High Priest, and not to us.
June 11th, 2007 at 21:44 pm
DR Hovinds dvd series about the age of the earth and the others completely changed my way of thinking. Before watching his dvds I really didn’t know what to believe about creation and the age of the earth. If he made this much difference in my way of thinking, then how many others were encouraged by him. I believe that satan is using the government to shut Dr Hovind up.
And Steve, why do you believe that he has mislead people about the age of the earth?
June 11th, 2007 at 22:35 pm
I would not rule out the possibility that Satan is using the situation to his advantage, but the Hovinds bear the responsibility for their own actions. I don’t want to blame Satan for my mistakes. He may have influenced me (or the Hovind’s), but that doesn’t absolve us from bearing the consequences.
As for him misleading people on the age of the earth, I’m going to take a step back and say that while I disagree with his assumptions, his approach, and his logic, I can’t say that he intentionally misleads people. Kent Hovind is a True Believer in his cause - convincing people that the earth is 6000 years old. I think that gets in the way of his (and our) Scriptural calling of reaching out to a lost and fallen world with the good news of Christ’s atoning death. Anything that hinders the Gospel, whether it’s money, paying taxes, Young Earth vs. Old Earth, KJV vs NIV, is Satan’s joy.
June 13th, 2007 at 18:48 pm
I’ve spent the last twenty minutes reading through all of these posts. It’s been interesting how some of you are willing to take Hovind’s sentence yourself so he may go out and continue his work for the Lord. I’ve seen scripture “shouted” back and forth at one another, and I’ve seen people calling the Word of God a farce. This whole message board must break God’s heart. Encouraging people to visit reasons.org…telling people that Hovind was brainwashing his own wife and thousands of people about the age of the earth…I don’t get it. We’re Christians, right? Aren’t we? Why would it make our day to see one of our own–even if he has gone “astray”–fail? Fail very publicly at that too. Do you think Hovind’s work and ministry crushed the Lord’s heart? Or is it too far-fetched to think his Heavenly Father may have been proud of him? The people that do amazing works for God and the Great Commission are notorious for blundering. THAT’S the part that Satan loves. That’s the part that the Enemy wants to exploit and make sure will hit CNN and the headlines. It’s so sad that it seems Muslims have a better understanding of unity than Christians do. The more we bicker amongst ourselves and the less we stand up for our own, the weaker we will become.
Oh, one side note here for Steve:
You have made it apparent throughout this whole forum how much you loathe the work that Hovind did/does. And you direct the people who see this to visit reasons.org. And from what I’ve gathered, you have called yourself a Christian. I went to reasons.org and discovered that it’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I only discovered Hovind a week ago. I have yet to really understand his theories on why Genesis is true. But you know what? As a Christian and a daughter of the One True God, I didn’t need Kent Hovind to tell me that God created the heavens and the earth. I didn’t need Kent Hovind to tell me that there was a flood that covered the entire earth. I didn’t need Kent Hovind to tell me that the Word of God is true in its entirety. When I excepted Christ as my Savior, it wasn’t “conditional”. I didn’t say that I would pick and choose which part of the “theology” I believed or didn’t believe. That’s not an option in Christianity.
Convincing people that segments of the Bible aren’t true or essentially over-exaggerated? Now THAT’S what the Enemy loves. Anything to even slightly discredit the Lord.
June 13th, 2007 at 19:33 pm
Kountrygrl,
Thanks for taking the time to read this whole series. I appreciate your comments and you make many excellent points. Over the many months since I first posted this, I have mellowed a bit in my understanding of Hovind and his mission. See comment #37 just above for that.
Did he intentionally teach something that is different from my understanding of Genesis? Yes. Did he intentionally mislead people? Most likely not. As I said, he is a True Believer in his cause. I think that his cause is only peripherally the Gospel. First and foremost, he is a Defender of Genesis (as he sees it) and opponent of taxes.
Can God use him and his message of dinosaurs to reach people with the truth of the Gospel? Yes. Does Satan rejoice to see infighting within the body of
believers? Absolutely.
What is your beef with Reasons.org? That fact that they are old earth proponents? I believe (as they do) in the accuracy and validity of Scripture from beginning to end. They just take a different view about the method God used as described in Genesis.
Bottom line: this is not a salvation issue. The message of the Gospel is much more important than the old-earth/young-earth debate.
Thanks for saying your piece in love.
June 17th, 2007 at 02:59 am
Sorry Vince, (comment 34) you’re wrong. The biggest heresies arise from people wresting verses or passages from their context and forming a theory or doctine that is repulsive to that context.
Read your Romans 13 verses in context of the whole chapter. You’ll come to, “For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing”. Tithes (though unscriptural in the NT Church)and offerings are a Church “thing”. Taxes are a secular “thing”. Romans 13 is certainly about obedience to civil authorities. However, Acts 5:29 clearly shows that there are boundaries to such obedience: “But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men.”
This isn’t a comment on the Hovind situation because I don’t know the facts of the case, and nowhere (at the point I’m reading) have they been clearly and completely stated.
Steve, you have said, “Bottom line: this is not a salvation issue. The message of the Gospel is much more important than the old-earth/young-earth debate.”
For many, the veracity of the “Creationist viewpoint” (ie the scriptual account)has been very much a salvation issue. Evolutionary doctrine (yes, “doctrine”) - based on proven and exposed scientific fraud, the deliberate perpetuation of lies, “just-so” stories and assumptions that rule out God and the Biblical account before even getting started - has shipwrecked the faith of many who have begun their university education unsuspecting the ferocity of the evolutionary attacks against their faith. Evolutionists understand better than many Christians how evolution undermines Christian doctrine. A prominent evolutionist said, (and I quote from memory) “If there was death before Adam,then it did not result from sin. If sin did not bring death, then there was no fall, and if there was no fall then there is no need for a saviour and there lay the sorry remains of the Christian faith”.
On the other hand, countless people have been liberated to listen and accept the Gospel message because they have been shown that the Bible can be trusted. Faith is rejuvinated when people discover that Genesis, the “book of beginnings” that contains the seed of the Gospel and every major doctrine is the beginning of a unique book, a book that can be trusted implicitly.
June 17th, 2007 at 08:27 am
Kevryl,
I agree with your interpretation of Romans and the duty to pay taxes, and yes, I think Kent Hovind and others have taken the passages out of context.
You took exception to my statement “Bottom line: this is not a salvation issue. The message of the Gospel is much more important than the old-earth/young-earth debate,” assuming that an old-earth interpretation implies evolution. It doesn’t.
I accept every word of Scripture and wouldn’t change a thing, but I hold to an old-earth progressive creation or framework creation view that doesn’t need evolution to make things happen. It’s similar to the view held be Hugh Ross’ Reasons to Believe ministry, though I don’t agree with all aspects of his theology.
June 19th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
I have read all of the posts on this blog. Basically, although many other topics are covered, the controversial topics connected to Kent Hovind are: His total belief in and support for the six day creation account in Genesis and his belief in the lack of support in the United States Constitution for the Federal Reserve, the IRS and the interference of these two institutions with Churches.
Some facts on the tax issue:
The United States Constitition gives all power to create money to the Federal Government and this power is not to be delegated or given to any other entity.
In 1907 at a secret meeting on Jekl Island prominent American Bankers Paul Warberg et al created the plan to establish what was to become the Federal Reserve
In 1913 after at least one failure to get approval from Congress the Federal Reserve Act was passed
The Federal Reserve is privately owned and is not a department of the United States Government or under the control of the United States Government in any way.
In 1913 the Federal Reserve Act gave the Federal Reserve the power and authority to create the money (out of paper) that all Americans would use to conduct commerce.
The Federal Reserve is empowered to charge the United States (and its citizens) interest on the money that it creates (on paper) with simply the stroke of their pen.
Income Tax does is not used for anything at all except to pay this interest (on the money Americans use) to the Federal Reserve.
In essence this means that the Federal Reserve was given a license to create money out of nothing and charge interest on this money. This is in total contravention of the United States Constitution.
This link http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/FED.html provies only one historical account of these facts. There are litterally hundred’s of other documented accounts.
<!–more–>
The fact of the 1907 meeting on Jekl Island was documented in the press in 1935
How did it happen? After previous attempts to push the Federal Reserve Act through Congress, a group of bankers funded and staffed Woodrow Wilson’s campaign for President. He had committed to sign this act. In 1913, a Senator, Nelson Aldrich, maternal grandfather to the Rockefellers, pushed the Federal Reserve Act through Congress just before Christmas when much of Congress was on vacation. When elected, Wilson passed the FED. Later, Wilson remorsefully replied, referring to the FED, “I have unwittingly ruined my country”. Now the banks financially back sympathetic candidates. Not surprisingly, most of these candidates are elected. FOR A COMPLETE EXPLANATION PLEASE GO TO THIS LINK: http://www.bigeye.com/griffin.htm
REALITY: The Federal Reserve and the IRS is the greatest fraud that has ever been perpetrated. It is no different in Canada where the counterpart of the Federal Reserve is The Bank of Canada which has the same powers as the Federal Reserve. Interestingly guess when the Bank of Canada was created. You guessed right; 1913. Also the “Bank of Canada” is not an entity of the Candian Government but as with the Federal Reserve is a privately owned organization.
Please before you castigate Mr Hovind in connection with the tax issue please get your facts straight. Naturally one does not win on this issue in any court in the United States as the power of the opponents that you face, the controllers of the IRS. are simply too powerful and too corrupt.
2ND ISSUE - YOUNG EARTH
Steve you have proven that you have an open mind by your change of opinion about Kent Hovind. I compliment you with all my heart for this quality. “Pride” and “Being unwilling to have an open mind” are, in my opinion, probably the greatest enemies of “true Christianity” today. So I would request Steve that you, with an open mind, review all of the Hovind material and the material of Kent Hoving and Ken Ham who is also a “young earth” proponent and apply your open mind in this area. Each of these men together were responsible for changing me from the “old earth” theory of Hugh Ross to the fact and truth of the “young earth” understanding. The bottom line for me is this “If we cannot believe what God clearly says in Genesis how can we believe him when he tells us and assures us about our salvation?”
For all of those who have vehemently disagreed with each other on this blog I would like to tell you about a sermon that I was fortunate to hear at one time in my Christian walk.
“THE SHELF THEORY”
The minister challenged the problem that Christians have in disagreeing with each other. Of course he gave us a very well thought out presentation but it boiled down to this. The admontition of Jesus Christ in the New Testament is that his desciples should “love each other” and that they should “not judge each other”. He admonished us to always talk about Christ and spiritual matter to all of our friends and aquaintances. No doubt we will encounter topics, beliefs and perceptions on which we don’t agree and when this occurs let’s simply agree with our Christian friend that we will put our disagreement “ON THE SHELF” until we can sit down with Jesus Christ and he will then tell us what is correct.
June 19th, 2007 at 13:30 pm
James,
That was a mouthful. Thanks for commenting. With regard to the issue of taxes, the Federal Reserve, etc., I’m going to take a pass. I was raised on None Dare Call it Conspiracy and other similar works. I think there are two options: 1) it’s all true, or 2) it’s all hooey. Either way, what are you going to do?
Read 2 Peter for his description of Last Days events. He boils it all down to this - how then should we live? What difference does any or all of Scripture make if it doesn’t come down to living the life Christ called us to? The Fed is running our economy or they aren’t. Have you taken care of the ‘the least of these’? I’m putting the taxes/Fed issue on the shelf.
As for Kent Hovind, again, I’ve considered his arguments (as opposed to his calls to win others for Christ, which I can’t find) and found them wanting in substance. The age of the earth debate is interesting, but only from an academic/theological argument perspective. It’s not the Gospel, and despite arguments to the contrary, it doesn’t affect our understanding of the Gospels or the need for salvation. I’d rather persuade one lost person of their need for Christ than a thousand people about ‘the right answer’ to the age of the earth.
June 19th, 2007 at 15:55 pm
Steve, I haven’t studied anything about old-earth progressive creation so how do they explain the fact that the moon is moving away from the earth. And if creation was billions of years old then the moon would have been on the earth if you apply the distance that the moon is moving away from earth.
June 19th, 2007 at 18:38 pm
This thing is stealing my comments. What’s up widdat?
The moon revolves around the earth in a reasonably circular ellipse, as described by Kepler (who was a pretty strong believer, by the way.) Its orbit has varied over the millenia (billenia?), but the best explanation I’ve seen is here. The amount of growth currently is only on the order of about 4 cm in a year, which is not much to build a young earth theory on.
June 20th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Hovind went against Jesus’ own teachings who said in Matthew 22:21
.., Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.’. [pay your taxes]
Hovind is a hypocrite, he did the crime, & must serve the time.
Hovind is a menace to education, science and common-sense.
For some of the reasons why:
Google 15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense.
June 20th, 2007 at 14:00 pm
pseudo,
To quote Jack Aubrey, ‘You’ve come to the wrong place for anarchy, brother.’ But I agree that he did the crime and now needs to do the time.
June 23rd, 2007 at 23:47 pm
I don’t know all the details. I literally just learned of the Hovind’s demise about an hour ago. (where have i been?). Wow, too busy to pay attention to the news, i guess. My family and I have enjoyed the teachings of Kent Hovind for many years… and are just amazed and shocked over this whole thing. Is there anywhere I can get a complete accounting of what all happened? And does anyone know exactly why the Jury only took 2-3 hours to deliberate on 58 counts? And where is Mrs. Hovind serving her time? So many questions. I’ll return to find, hopefull, answers. Oh and I applaud the Hovinds for the stand on their convictions. Whether or not I agree with them I appreciate their courageous boldness to stay “by the stuff” …, and I can appreciate their stand for what they believe in!
June 25th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
I heard Hovind speak at my high school and he made qiute an impression on me. I have since shared some of the things he spoke about with non-beleivers and it really hits them hard. I have led more non-beleivers to the church with a few of his words than anything else. I beleive he had good intentions, but might have got a little greedy. Regardless, I’m sure he’s forgiven and will have many riches stored in heaven
June 28th, 2007 at 14:26 pm
Why do people keep quoting .., Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.’. [ie. pay your taxes]
That is not what Jesus is saying at all. Tiberius was emperor and money of the day stated “Caesar is God”. The tribute money was not a tax but a free will gift to Tiberius recognizing he is the son of Censor, the son of God (Caesar), and Jesus is saying Caesar is not God.
You can’t just pull random verses from the bible without understanding the context. That is why nearly all of the disciples died a martyr because they would obey Ceasar in nearly everything except recognizing him as God.
June 30th, 2007 at 16:52 pm
Bob,
I’ve heard that argument a few times and it doesn’t hold water - though it’s obviously part of Hovind’s rationalization for not paying taxes. The verse is pretty straightforward and you are seizing on it and not reading the context.
July 1st, 2007 at 11:30 am
Now there’s a whole lot of court material available if you are interested in the Hovind lawsuit. Just go to:
http://www.penaltyprotester.org
and check out the ‘Hovind case’. The Lindsay report is very interesting. There were a few mistakes on the side of the prosecutors in this case as you will see. I can’t help but wonder what really is going on? What may seem like a simple tax fraud case might just be something else. By the way, it really is interesting that all of you have the courage to go against the theory of evolution and question everything it teaches, yet here you are taking for granted that dr. Hovind is guilty, just because he was convicted in a court of law. Prosecutors aren’t infallible. They make mistakes, too. And sometimes they just swerve from the straight path. Ever heard of bad cops, bad judges, bad politicians, or even bad causes? Sometimes people just swerve from the straight path. Like evolutionist who cheat and lie to prove their point. You all used to believe that what you read in science books is the truth. But now you know better, don’t you? How about applying that ‘open mind’ business to dr. Hovind’s lawsuit? It’s worth a shot, isn’t it? Maybe you’ll find that he isn’t the bad guy after all. And to finish this off: Ever heard the term ‘legal interpretation’? If not, check this out:
http://press.princeton.edu/chapters/s7991.pdf
Believe me, law is definitely not an exact science. I’m not trying to brainwash anyone. See all those websites for yourselves! Remember: open mind! Once you’ve read all these things you’ll probably think twice before you say something like ‘Yeah, he’s guilty, he belongs behind bars.’ Take care! English Teacher Nobody from Hungary.
July 3rd, 2007 at 15:16 pm
Istvan,
I’m not sure what your point is. I checked out the sites you reference and didn’t see anything that would lead me to think that Hovind was railroaded for his beliefs, or that the prosecutors were off-base in their approach. The ‘Lindsay report’ (actually ‘Lindsey Report’) is a poorly written pro-Hovind piece in the guise of a legal summary.
July 4th, 2007 at 02:20 am
Well, Steve, my point is that people who grumble at their government too much sometimes find themselves in trouble with their government. I’m not saying that governments in general are big bad wolves, but thinking that they are truthful to the core is a silly thing to do. People think that those working in the law enforcement business always go by the book. Sure they do, but what book and how do they go by it?
This is where ‘legal interpretation’ comes in the picture. To make it very simple: if they want to get you, Steve, they will. Laws can be interpreted pretty loosely if that’s what needed to get the required results. Take Jo Hovind’s case for instance. You’re familiar with the lawsuit, so you know what I’m talking about, when I say that a lot of people could be charged with structuring just because they withdraw less than $10,000 from their bank accounts sometimes more than once a month, and the total amount is above the $10,000 limit. But they’re doing just fine, because they have a proper job and someone’s paying their taxes and social security, and so on.
But what you have here is a family that decided to go by the book, but a different book, called the Bible. You see the problem is that nobody believes them that they are missionaries and that they live by gifts or donations from Christians who want to further the cause of creationism. They receive gifts in the form of money and they give their fellow missionaries part of these gifts for their efforts. And they have something like an organization, but is it against the law to be organized for the sake of efficiency? If you want to go on a holiday with a whole lot of friends, and you organize your trip to make everything flawless, it’s just wise, isn’t it? But that won’t make you a travel agency, right? Well, try to do that on a regular basis, if you have loads of friends and a lot of money on your bank account but no job for the time being, and I’m sure your neighbor will report it to the IRS, and one day you’ll have federal agents knocking on your door. Well, maybe not, but it’s possible. But if that happened, would you be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you’re not running an illegal travel agency for the sole purpose of avoiding taxes? I know that it is a lame analogy, but the point is: you can be guilty or innocent depending on the attitude of the people who deal with your case. Perhaps presumption would be a better word. If the people who deal with your case presume that you’re doing whatever you’re doing to avoid taxes, that’s what they’re gonna prove. If, on the other hand, they happened to believe that you’re just a nice guy with a lot of fat bank account (and you have a history of paying taxes nicely), they will leave you alone, and tell your neighbor never to bother them with such nonsense again.
Now, in the case of Hovind, the IRS presumes that he / they wanted to avoid taxes. But why does the IRS presume that? Very simple. They don’t like people who don’t pay taxes. It’s their job to make sure everyone pays taxes. So, when they find someone who withdraws money from the bank, yet does not pay taxes, they presume the person is a crook. What else could he be? A Christian receiving gifts from fellow Christians to run a mission? You’ve gotta be kidding me! No. He’s trying to beat the tax system. Otherwise he would have a registered organization, a church or something, that ought to pay taxes, like any other legal entity. This is the way they think. They cannot do otherwise, because this is what they’ve been trained to do. Hovind was and is the round peg in a square hole. Missions that pay no taxes are incompatible with the IRS code. You can’t beat the system, the system will beat you. Hovind paid no taxes, thought that he had a good basis for not doing that (being a missionary / running a mission / living by gifts / ‘paying’ fellow missionaries in the form of gift), and believed everything was OK. The IRS thought they found a defrauder, went after him, and got him. Well, them. Oh boy, when they think they found a defrauder they’ll make sure they get the guy. Their reputation is at stake. And they’re no charity I can tell you that. No revenue service is. If they want to get you, they will.
My opinion is that it’s unwise to go against something as mighty as the IRS (well any revenue service, really), and if I met someone who was thinking about going against it, I would tell him to think twice. Pay taxes even if you think you should not! You see, it happens sometimes that you fight for a just cause and you are absolutely right, and the people or organizations you’re fighting against are wrong, and still you lose. A long time ago my father lost a lawsuit he should have won, because the defendant paid off the judge. You see the guy had a lot of money, he was a loan shark. And the system worked just fine. The guy is long dead, so is the judge, and so is my father, who had to work 16 hours a day to pay the loan shark ‘his’ money back for the third time… It was too much for him. Well, it was just another case for the court, but it ruined a family. The judge was corrupt, and a lot of people knew it, but kept silent, because they were smart enough. They never got into trouble, but a lot of people did, because nobody had the courage to go against that judge. But of course that happened a long time ago, but not in a galaxy far, far away.
I apologize for the long comment.
Take care!
July 4th, 2007 at 14:08 pm
I support what Kent Hovind taught in his DVD’s about Evolution being false, etc.
As far as the IRS and texes go, that is a necessart evil. Those who have the Gold and the Guns…. Make the rules.
I do not personally feel called by God to challenge the IRS.
I have unmovable convictions about Abortion, ID chips in my hand or forehead, and other things…. but the IRS and taxes is not one of them.
I would hope that you get watch his DVD series on Creation Science. I have no doubt that these DVDs were God-ordained!!
The Constitution says we have a “Right to Life….” Someday soon, our Govt. will be telling us about our “Right to Death, to Die”…. I think they would call that… from the State Religion– Evolution… The Survival of the Fittest…
Go Figure!?!
July 10th, 2007 at 04:50 am
I also support Kent Hovind and his ministry, I believe what Kent did by the law books was wrong, but I only say that because the bible does say that we should abide by the laws of the land.
Romans 13:1-7 states: “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.
But when the laws of the land go against what we believe is to be right, we should trust the law written in our hearts. (Our conscience)
“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts.”—Hebrews 8:10.
I believe the reason Kent did what he did was because he thought that paying those taxes was going to a cause which God would not support. We pay our taxes and the government uses those tax dollars to teach evolution.I’m not saying that evolution should not be taught at all, but they should teach both sides, that their are possibilities of a creation without the billions of years. No scientist can tell you where the matter came from to create the universe, it takes faith to believe it, just like i can’t tell you where God came from except that hes always been their, which also takes faith. Evolution taught by its self kills the faith of many children and many adults because their not given an alternative to evolution. I believe if our government taught both theories Kent would definately have paid those taxes but why pay for a cause that is going to destroy peoples belief in God. When the apostles were told not to preach in the streets did they listen to the government…No because it went against God…
>
Myself I believe in a maximum 10,000 year old Earth, but does it matter, does the age of the Earth determine my faith in god or the belief in his son Jesus. I don’t think so. So when I get to heaven, if God were to tell me that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, am i supposed to say sorrow must have the wrong house. Same goes for anyone that believes in an old earth, when they get to heaven are they gonna say sorry wrong house, if God tells them the earth is 10,000 years old, I doubt it.
So instead of condemning the man we should be thinking him for his obedience. He is doing what he teaches unlike alot of christians. So if evolution, or at least what is being taught is against God and is causing souls to be lost and confused should we pay the government to teach it. I believe it goes against God, and we should obey God rather than men.
July 10th, 2007 at 07:13 am
Robert,
I edited your comment slightly for length, but otherwise left it as written. You make your point very well without denigrating others’ belief, and I appreciate that.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:17 am
This is so sad, not only what happened to Kent hovind and his wife but also the thinking of many so called Christians. I have to admit that as a new Christian I was gung-ho on the render to Ceaser thinking. But as a person grows in Christ, understanding broadens. Cor.6:1-3. Our government was founded to serve the people, not the other way around.