Jun 19
What I Believe - and Don’t
Hi, my name is Steve and I’m a recovering fundamentalist. Here’s what I believe:
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.
Everything else is just fluff.
I Also Believe That…
- The earth is very old
- There are Christian believers not in my denomination who are saved. (Heresy, I know…)
- The most important point in the Genesis creation account is Genesis 1:1 (In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.) All the rest is amplification on that point, not a blueprint for how to build a planet.
- Israel has a right to exist and to defend herself, preemptively, if necessary
- Parents have a duty to train and discipline their kids
- Smaller government and lower taxes benefits everyone
- Parents can do a better job raising kids than the government or any school system
I Don’t Believe That…
- All dogs (or people) go to heaven
- All paths get you to heaven
- Man-induced global warming is happening
- The earth is only 6000 years old
- God is a republican or a democrat
- Christian leaders should advocate political candidates
- God would never send anyone to hell
- Jesus was just a good man
The Jury is Still Out On…
- When Christ will return
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July 31st, 2007 at 09:41 am
Heck, Steve. How can God send anyone to hell? There ain’t any evidence (Biblical or otherwise) for it.
July 31st, 2007 at 10:12 am
What do you do with all the references to God’s judgment? The sheep and the goats? Why would God bother giving us free will if there were no consequences for making wrong choices? Why bother with Creation at all if everyone gets to go to heaven?
Christ spoke of it too often for me to think that it is strictly an allegorical notion.
I don’t know what ‘hell’ would be if not a place of torment for those who reject God. The Catholic notion of purgatory is not much better as it’s just an ‘easy hell’ that you can work your way out of.
September 9th, 2007 at 17:56 pm
I don’t believe it says in scripture God sends us to hell… it does say ” you condemn yoursleves”; therefore we choose hell… we love hell… we are the children of satan, because we do the works of our father (satan).
God too says: depart from Me, for I knew you not.
oh He knew you and your choice, but there was no relationship built upon Him and being obedient… so why wouldn’t He say: depart from Me. Well if we depart from Him, then there is only one other place I can see us going.
You can only be one of two spirits… The Holy Ghost or the Angel of Light; to which also is known as the father of lies.
This site is pretty interesting… think I will add you to my bookmarks.
September 9th, 2007 at 19:27 pm
Gosh, don’t know how I missed replying to you back in July, Steve.
Well, since Jesus is speaking metaphorically when he refers to us as sheep and goats, might not he be speaking metaphorically when he alludes to punishment. After all, we won’t really be thrown into the garbage pit called Gehenna.
There is some adulteration of scripture as regards to how we have translated Sheol and Gehenna. Enough to make me question the doctrine of hell and then when looked at through the lens of the Gospel, well….
So, oxysmoron, where is that one other place you see the departed as going?
September 9th, 2007 at 20:20 pm
Christian,
Well, since Jesus is speaking metaphorically when he refers to us as sheep and goats, might not he be speaking metaphorically when he alludes to punishment.
I know he’s not literally calling us sheep and goats, but it’s pretty clear he’s making a distinction based on some criteria. Given the context, it seems to be those who accept him (sheep) and reject him (goats). Speaking to the goats, “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” Hmmm, more eternal fire going on here…
Or is “eternal fire’ a metaphorical/allegorical temporary period of self-imposed uncomfortableness?
September 9th, 2007 at 20:56 pm
You know, we could go ’round and ’round on this until we both drop exhausted.
Whether or not there is a hell, the point of this scripture (one of mny favorites) is not about where we go when punished but on what true service to God is all about. All those smug ‘goats’ thought they had it right but didn’t and the humble sheep, well they were sort of surprised when Jesus applauded them.
I don’t think Jesus told this ‘parable’ to illustrate a doctrine about hell. Too many people have missed the big picture because they fixate on the supporting details.(Present company excepted, Steve)
October 25th, 2007 at 14:06 pm
I like this blog entry and in fact I like your blog period. Lots of common sense initiatives…
I believe…
that I will be back for more!
Hugs,
Roby
December 16th, 2007 at 17:27 pm
catholic, huh? well, you lost me.
December 17th, 2007 at 09:51 am
That’s ‘catholic’ meaning ‘universal,’ as opposed to Roman Catholic.
January 29th, 2008 at 15:33 pm
I like your last comment Steve.
I see people too often get caught up on the term catholic, and think it is the same as Catholic.
The word just means “universal.”
From a young earther…
Greg
January 30th, 2008 at 06:30 am
As a Catholic.. you are an idolater, yes?
Why do you pray to so many gods? (You may not call them gods… but you seek after their blessings as if they are gods… this is part of the PAGAN ROMAN religion.)
Wouldn’t you want to know The True Jesus?
You won’t find Him in Catholicism
January 30th, 2008 at 06:37 am
+:
Wow, where did that come from? You’re obviously hung up on the word ‘catholic’ in the Nicene Creed - a creed that is generally accepted by most Protestants as well as Roman Catholics. No, I’m not an RC. Catholic church, as used in this prayer, means ‘universal church’. I know many Roman Catholics who have a deep and abiding relationship with Jesus Christ. I would certainly consider them to be ’saved’. I also know many Protestants who have no more than a surface religion.
Please check your biases at the door. Thanks for playing.
May 30th, 2008 at 09:13 am
A couple of questions regarding the age of the earth (I’m still debating how to interpret the creation account in Genesis):
Was Adam the first actual man? If not, then who sinned first? There are huge theological implications if the picture of Adam being our physical “Head” is not correct.
If man evolved, then how did anyone/anything die before Adam? The Bible says that “by sin, death entered into the world.” If man sinned as he was evolving, then at what point did it become volitional sin and not just animalistic instinct. Again, if death entered by sin, then nothing could have died until someone actually sinned.
May 30th, 2008 at 09:32 am
TMAC:
I think Adam was the first actual, homo sapien man. I hold to an old earth view and it makes sense to me that Adam (and Eve) were created somewhere between 35-75,000 years ago. Some folks will go as high as 100,000 years ago, but I don’t see it. There were hominids prior to Adam (cro-magnon, etc), but none of them had the spirit of God in them, and none walked with God as Adam did. They were all separate, distinct species which were created and died out, just like the dinosaurs. No evolution involved.
As for the sin and death issue, sin and human death entered the world with Adam’s fall. All the other creatures were animals and were therefore unable to sin. They experienced death, but not the sin-death caused by Adam. Bottom line - I don’t have a problem with creatures or plants dying before Adam. Make sense?
May 30th, 2008 at 10:12 am
I understand your point, but to me, the whole idea of death (of any kind) could have never taken place (as I understand the Bible) when the Bible tells us that God called His creation (Plants, animals, etc…) “Good.” I’m not as adamant about this as I am that Jesus is God or that the resurrection was an actual event, but I guess I’m just trying to critically think aloud through the process with a little more willingness to “err” on the side of [Biblically literal] caution. I want to be able to have a well-thought out and reasoned reponse to anyone who may want to know (including my three kids, who often ask lots of questions). Anyway…
May 30th, 2008 at 10:40 am
TMAC:
In my mind, “the Law of Sin and Death” is tied to man, and doesn’t apply to animals or plants, because they can’t sin. When Scripture uses the phrase ‘it is good’ to refer to creation, it does not imply perfect or complete (or deathless), but good, as in good for man.
I’m not hard over on the mechanics of creation, because we weren’t there. Whether we take a literal 6×24 view or a longer view is not a key point of salvation. The key points to take away from the creation account are that:
1) God created everything
2) ex nihilo (out of nothing)
3) for us,
4) that man sinned, and
5) that sin made necessary Christ’s sacrificial death for us.
May 30th, 2008 at 13:19 pm
God said it was “good” long before man came on the scene (especially if you believe that plants and such were created eons before Adam) and everything (including man( is created for His glory so I’d be much more inclined to say that the “good” was “good for God’s glory.”
I’m in total agreement that the mechanics do not effect salvation. I also probably agree with all five points… but that’s just the Calvanist in me
May 31st, 2008 at 10:49 am
Why give careful thought to your ways? What does it accomplish if your careful thought leads you to camp on 35k or 75k earth age, or someone else 100k or someone else 6-10k? Or…someone else…millions and millions of years? If we’ve all thought carefully…so what? Is everything ok…is everyone right?
What reason do you give for “give careful thought to your ways?”
TimWs last blog post..they say You don’t exist, God?
June 1st, 2008 at 15:11 pm
TimW:
What’s the issue? You have a problem with reasoned thought? Or you have a problem with an interpretation of Scripture and the natural record? My personal belief is that God created the earth six billion years ago. Someone can take careful thought and come to a young earth solution or to an old earth solution. God alone knows, but that doesn’t prevent us from looking at the issue.
And I give ‘careful thought to my ways’ because that’s what God tells us to do.
June 6th, 2008 at 15:45 pm
To what end are we to give careful thought to our ways?
I’m just asking the question that came to mind as I gave thought to your interpretation. Careful thought includes careful study especially with respect to ‘the natural record’. Personal belief is fine, but can it be substantiated?
Haggai 1:7 says ‘Consider your ways’…but really it says ‘Thus says the LORD of hosts: Consider your ways.’ Why? ‘that I may take pleasure in it and that I may be glorified, says the LORD.’
Whatever you do…’whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God’ That would include expressing our personal beliefs. Is what I believe true? Then I can boast in the LORD of hosts and He gets the glory. If it isn’t true and just my ‘personal beliefs’…then its just man’s foolishness and it leads us away from the Creator King.
Reasoned thought is important; the apostle Paul reasoned with those in the synagogue often. Some understood and believed, others not. Imposing man’s collection of data (and understanding of that data) on the biblical record and detemining what God said from the starting point of man’s understanding is sort of foolish wouldn’t you agree. If God made the world and everything in it…shouldn’t we start with the Creator and bring our understanding of the natural record into submission to the Creator?
just some careful thoughts… Blessings.
TimWs last blog post..here’s a way to show LOVE in any language
June 6th, 2008 at 21:51 pm
TimW:
No argument here.
You say, Imposing man’s collection of data (and understanding of that data) on the biblical record and determining what God said from the starting point of man’s understanding is sort of foolish wouldn’t you agree. If God made the world and everything in it…shouldn’t we start with the Creator and bring our understanding of the natural record into submission to the Creator?
‘Imposing our collection of data’ is another way of saying ‘our interpretation based on study’ of Scripture. It’s what theologians and Christians seeking to understand the Word have done down through the centuries. We interpret Scripture - or natural revelation - based on what we know of God and what we observe. I don’t have a problem with that. And, yes, we need to bring all things into submission to the Creator.
God gave us the ability to think and reason, about who we are, who He is, what creation is, and how it all comes together. Personally, I don’t have a problem if someone does that and decides the earth is 6000 years old, or if they do it and decide it’s 6 billion years old. God alone knows, and that particular question is not relevant to salvation, so I tend to give folks the grace to come to their own conclusions.