Apr 22 2008
Wrong Way of the Master?
Ray Comfort did a video series on ’sharing your faith’ awhile back called the Way of the Master. It usually involved confronting someone with “If you were to die tonight, why should you get into heaven?” The point was to get bystanders to admit that they have lied, cheated, stolen, then tell them that they’ve violated God’s laws and were therefore guilty and needed to get right with God. After all, God has a plan for their life, right?
Michael Spencer at internetmonk has an excellent piece on the problem with this approach. His point? Jesus never asked those kind of questions. In fact, he didn’t come asking questions at all. Michael says:
I think it’s telling that the two most prolific evangelism programs in evangelicalism both approach their audience with questions that Jesus never used.
“Do you know that God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life?”
“If you were to die tonight, and God were to asked you, why should I let you into my heaven, what would be your answer?”
According to Mark, Jesus did not approach his world with a question at all, but with a proclamation[:] Mark 1:14 Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, 15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand [my emphasis]; repent and believe in the gospel.”
Christ spent a lot of time talking about ‘the kingdom of God’. He didn’t invite people to make a decision for him and He didn’t do altar calls. He showed that He was the son of God, He called sinners to turn from their lives of sin, and He died and rose that we might partake in the Kingdom of God.
Spencer is an amillenialist and I’m not. We have differing views of what heaven is or will be, but we agree that the result of a ’salvation experience’ is a turning away from sin toward a life that is a new creation. He says,
Inviting people to reserve a place in heaven is shortchanging the Gospel, and creates the problem of justifying the demands of the Kingdom of God in the interim. In the Great Commission, Jesus calls us to evangelism that invites persons to become disciples, obeying all that he commanded. This is not a second level of “fine print.” It is the Kingdom of Heaven and Jesus the Messiah as they are to be presented to the world.
Where fundamentalists and evangelicals typically get into trouble is the “what happens next” when a wayward sinner repeats the sinners prayer. It’s more than getting them plugged into a bible church or having them read the Gospel of John, though those are arguably good things to do. I would contend that even more important is showing them what a Christ-like, Spirit-led life is really about. It’s showing them what it no-kidding means to be a part of the Kingdom of God. That’s a tall order and I’ve seen very few folks who can do it effectively.
April 24th, 2008 at 13:38 pm
I will never forget when I was “witnessed” to by a guy in the French Quarter when I was a freshman at Tulane. I tried to tell the guy I was a Christian, and sister in Christ, but he called me a liar and a harlot and told me that I was going to hell, probably because he found me on Bourbon Street. However, those who live in N.O. and who find themselves in the Quarter at night (which there are a lot of non-harloty nighttime activities one can do there, in addition to its more infamous ones) know that the safest place to walk is down the middle of Bourbon. It’s closed to car traffic, it’s highly populated and well-lit. ANYways, I was really traumitized by this experience and had to get some prayer ministry from folks in my church. It really, really, really made me think, think, and think again about effective ways of leading folks to Jesus. Telling them that they’re going to hell is not among the most effective, in my experience.
April 24th, 2008 at 13:53 pm
Karen:
I think the real sin is supporting the D-backs over more talented teams, but that’s another story… Seriously, I don’t know what the right answer is, but smacking folks over the head with ‘their sin’ isn’t it. How do you show grace and love and tell someone they’re going to hell if they don’t change their ways? Are we even supposed to call them on their sin, or do we leave that job to the conviction of the Holy Spirit?
April 28th, 2008 at 16:35 pm
Hello,
I’d have to say I disagree with some of what you said. Jesus reviewed the Ten Commandments with the rich young ruler (Luke 18:20). He revealed that he knew the woman at the well was an adulteress (John 4:17). He raised the bar on the Ten Commandments so the crowd listening to the Sermon on the Mount would be convicted of their sin (Matt 5:17-28).
The law shows us what sin is (Romans 7:7, 3:20), shows us how we are exceedingly sinful (Romans 7:13), stops us from justifying ourselves (Romans 3:19), and brings us to faith in Christ (Galatians 3:24).
I think it’s clear that the law is what God uses to grant us Godly sorrow (2 Corinthians 7:10), and shows us how kind God is to save us from our sins (Romans 2:4). I agree that the sinner’s prayer isn’t found in the Bible, and Way of the Master doesn’t encourage it. In fact, I’ve heard them tell people that they shouldn’t repent because they’re scared of hell, but because God has been so kind to save them.
The questions you refer to aren’t WOTM questions. The “God has a wonderful plan for your life” question is unbiblical, and the “how would you get to heaven” question is from Evangelism Explosion. They refer to that question as a diagnostic question. If someone doesn’t answer the question properly, you should witness to them, since you can’t tell who is a Christian by looking at them.
I agree that if you don’t like Ray Comfort’s series of questions, you shouldn’t use it. However, if you come up with your own way of witnessing, I would highly reccomend using the law as it seems to be what God uses to convict people of their sin. I have found intriguing questions to be a good way to start conversations, and keep people engaged in the conversation, but if you think you should just command people to repent, I think that’s great!
Thanks,
Bill
Bills last blog post..Planetary Evolution Miracles
April 29th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Bill,
My only real beef with WOTM, EE, and other similar programs - and where are ‘programs’ defined in Scripture, by the way - is in the issue of follow-through. Obtaining a commitment or getting someone to pray the sinner’s prayer are meaningless without someone to model Christlike-ness.
but if you think you should just command people to repent, I think that’s great!
Now that is laughable. Smack someone on the head with your trusty dusty KJV-1611 and they’re saved? Not bloody likely.
April 29th, 2008 at 13:30 pm
Steve,
I can give more examples if you like, but I think it’s pretty clear that the biblical program is law to the proud, grace to the humble. No one said there is a defined set of questions.
I agree that obtaining a commitment or praying the sinner’s prayer is meaningless. However, what is not meaningless is when someone actually repents and puts their faith in Jesus. They are born again, and God will carry His good work in them through to completion. If they are born again, you generally don’t have to coerce them into coming to church, reading their Bible or living a Christian life.
What brings people to salvation? I have a list that probably isn’t complete, but it has all of the verses that I know of:
Godly sorrow (2 Corinthians 7:10).
God’s kindness (Romans 2:4).
The law (Galatians 3:24).
The gospel (Romans 1:16).
The message of the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 )
The LORD (2 Samuel 22:3).
The Holy Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:15).
The grace of God (Titus 2:11).
The Gospel is the message that saves. Hanging around with likable Christians, isn’t on the list. While you’re probably getting at something different than biblical evangelism with the crack about hitting someone on the head with the KJV, it’s obviously closer to the truth than you think.
Thanks,
Bill
Bills last blog post..Did John the Baptist Go to Heaven?
April 29th, 2008 at 13:43 pm
Bill:
Hanging around with likable Christians, isn’t on the list. While you’re probably getting at something different than biblical evangelism with the crack about hitting someone on the head with the KJV, it’s obviously closer to the truth than you think.
It’s not a question of ‘hanging with likeable Christians’. It’s about being willing to give of our time to pour into a new believer. The programs don’t necessarily provide for this, and ‘KJV smackers’ could care less about it. You can throw all the verses you want at an unbeliever, but it’s going to be foolishness to them. Salvation is a mystical act involving the individual and the Holy Spirit. We can nudge them, but it’s the work of the Holy Spirit to convict them, not us.
April 29th, 2008 at 14:16 pm
Steve,
If they’re new believers, it’s no longer evangelism, and we’re talking about two different things. We’re commanded to treat all Christians with love, not just new believers.
Who are these ‘KJV smackers’ you’re referring to? I don’t know of any KJV onlyists that are great evangelists. Maybe you’re not referring to KJV onlyists?
I agree that salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit, and throwing verses at them will seem foolish to them. Nevertheless, it’s what we’re commanded to do. A sword will cut someone even if they don’t believe in swords (Hebrews 4:12). We also can’t convict anyone of their sin, but we’re commanded to preach the Gospel (Romans 10:14). Are you a hyper-Calvinist–one who thinks God will save who He’s going to save, and we don’t have to preach the Gospel? Are you saying that because the Holy Spirit is the one who convicts people and saves them, we can be disobedient to the great commission? I guess I don’t understand what you’re getting at.
Thanks,
Bill
Bills last blog post..Did John the Baptist Go to Heaven?
April 29th, 2008 at 14:58 pm
Bill,
I probably haven’t explained my point well. The post was intended as critique of evangelism styles that emphasize “making a decision for Christ” at the expense of building the Kingdom. Read Michael’s post at internetmonk for the context.
I digressed a bit in the comments with regard to the Fundamentalist “You’re gonna burn in hell” style of evangelism. I spent eight+ years in a Fundamentalist church which taught that society was evil and that we needed to protect ourselves from it. That’s exactly the opposite of what Christ did. He didn’t wallow in it, but He definitely went to meet people at their need, eating with sinners, and dealing with the unclean in ways that distressed the religious leaders of the day. At the same time, He didn’t shrink from calling people on their sin (e.g., healing and then saying ‘Go and sin no more’).
April 29th, 2008 at 15:27 pm
I think there may be some misunderstanding based upon terminology here. Perhaps the differing of opinion boils down to what Jesus meant as the “Kingdom of God.” Is the Kingdom of God, which Jesus incessantly taught, just heaven? Or, is the Kingdom of God wider: wherever God has His rule and reign, including here in earth, in each believer, and in the collective Body of Christ?
Personally, I believe more along the lines of the second, and I think Steve does, too. But, perhaps, Bill, your beliefs are more closely aligned with Kingdom = heaven? It’s my observation that those who are of the “Kingdom = heaven” understanding of are of the conviction that it’s most important to just get people into heaven, not necessarily build the wider Kingdom here on earth.
I know that, according to my understanding of “Kingdom,” when Jesus speaks of building the Kingdom, I’m not simply thinking of converts; I’m thinking of disciples, and disciple-making is a longer-term (here on earth, anyways), more-involved commitment than simply getting someone to make a decision for Christ.
BOTH are important, IMO. We need folks to turn to Christ and be converted, but we also need to build the Kingdom, here on earth, although it’s not the perfect, New Jerusalem, heavenly Kingdom; it’s more the Kingdom of the “now and the not yet.”
And, I think that the way a person is led to Christ influences whether or not they will be a long-term, Kingdom-building disciple for Christ.
Karen Joys last blog post..Woo-hoo! A hiking trip!
April 29th, 2008 at 15:38 pm
Yeah, what she said…
April 29th, 2008 at 15:59 pm
Steve and Karen,
I agree that the Kingdom of God is wherever God has chosen, including earth, today.
One thing is that I believe there is no difference between a disciple and a convert. Is a convert born again? Is a convert someone who has died to themselves, and is living for Jesus? I think there are tons of false converts. People who say they’re Christians, or think they’re Christians, but really aren’t. Mark 4:1-20 talks about true and false conversions. People are either dead in their sins or born again (Ephesians 2:1). There’s not anything in between dead and alive. You’re either one or the other. If you’re a false convert, you’re still dead in your sin. If you’re a true convert/disciple, you’re born again.
I think God makes disciples. Our job is to preach the Gospel. If you suspect someone is a false convert, the way to fix that is to make sure they understand the Gospel. I talk to plenty of people who say they’re Christians, but think they’re going to heaven because they’re good people.
Thanks for the conversation.
Bill
Bills last blog post..Did John the Baptist Go to Heaven?
April 29th, 2008 at 16:19 pm
Bill:
I don’t disagree, but who makes the call about whether a Christian is a “false convert” or not? Is someone a false convert because he disagrees with you? I’ve had that one used against me, and, by the way, see Karen’s first comment above for her experience in that particular arena.
And that raises the salvation issue again. What does it mean to be saved? A good friend went forward at a church camp when he was sixteen and prayed the sinner’s prayer because he deeply and sincerely believed he was a sinner in need of God’s grace and forgiveness. The problem is that the fruit of the Spirit was never particularly visible in his life. He exemplified the parable of the seed on rocky soil. He died several years ago, so is he in heaven because he accepted Christ, or in hell because he wasn’t - to my knowledge - living in the Spirit? I’m thankful that it’s God’s call and not mine. God knew his heart, I didn’t.
Bottom line - I think you’re right, but I would be cautious about calling someone a false convert.
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:37 am
Have you watched the Way of the Master t.v. show? Have you listened to Way of the Master radio? Have you listened to any of Ray’s messages?
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Bret:
I haven’t seen the tv show, but we went through of the WotM video series in a Sunday School class. I have nothing against Ray Comfort or Kirk Cameron, I just think their method is flawed.
July 4th, 2008 at 20:33 pm
I have used the WOTM ‘method’ for a long time and many people that I talk to when including a message about the law, sin, heaven and hell, repentance, and the grace of God, have said thank-you as many Christians have been crazy enough to tell them that they ‘just need to say a little prayer and ask Jesus into your heart’ to be saved. I carried out the evangelism training online course that Ray and Kirk ran, and have to say that they encourage discipling an individual, but also prioritise that ‘chasing them up’ was the job of the holy spirit.
In regards to one-on-one evangelism, Paul himself spoke to Felix on a number of occasions about righteousness, temperance and the judgement to come, and the result was that ‘Felix trembled’ (obviously in fear). Ray and Kirk also encourage serious thought to the gospel and generally dont always push for an answer there and then as to salvation but encourage them to go away and think about it. Ray even himself said that he used to ‘jump in and scatter some seeds and then find another crowd to do the same thing (obviously not quoted exactly), but he realised the importance of spending time with the individual trying to answer questions and giving words that will actually sit with the individual past the conversation.
While it is the holy spirits job to convict, notice that in the bible the ‘cutting to the heart’ (ie conviction) came about when the disciples SPOKE out the gospel, and it was the ONLY time the spirit of God convicted. Paul said in 2nd Thessalonians 2 v 13-14 ‘ We are thankful that God chose you to be among the first to experience salvation, a salvation that came through the spirit who makes you hold and by your belief in the truth. HE called you to salvation when WE told you the good news…’. I think the important thing that WOTM master teaches that is line with the word of God, is that the concept of ‘inviting Jesus into your heart’ is a load of rubbish. Like Christ and the disciples, WOTM encourages repentence from sins, and turning to God and putting ones trust in him. So as far as I am concerned, the WOTM method is not flawed at all, as WOTM encourages also reliance on the holy spirit when you bring the gospel.
July 4th, 2008 at 21:53 pm
Ryan,
On the one hand, I am leery of methods and formulas in presenting the Gospel, because they can quickly become the end rather than the means. We get so focused on the WOTM, or Romans Road, or any number of other techniques, that we forget be Christ-like, which is prehaps the best Gospel to share.
On the other hand, it would be a pretty sorry carpenter who said, “I’m only going to use a hammer to do my job, because I’m a hammer guy and my dad used a hammer, and his dad before him.” These are all just tools to be used (or not) in sharing Christlikeness.
The most effective tool I’ve ever seen is lifestyle evangelism, which is simply modeling Christ in one’s daily life. That witness, combined with genuine discipleship can have phenomenal effect, and all without thumping someone on the head with the 4 Spiritual Laws.
I’ve recently come out of eight years in a fundamentalist church. Fundies and very conservative evangelicals have no concept of modeling Christlikeness. They have programs by the score and are great at trying to limit uncomfortable behavior, but I think Christ would not recognize them if He were to walk in the front door.
July 4th, 2008 at 22:50 pm
Even though WOTM are seen to offer a gospel ‘formula’, they are actually giving a gospel ‘framework’. Just like Christ gave us a prayer ‘framework’ with the Lords prayer. WOTM know that its important to present all parts of the gospel when you share your faith, so offer a simple way to do this as human beings are not very clever at grasping simple truths. I dont know of many evangelists who stick strictly to the WOTM ’script’, but I know many of us have simply used what they have brought to light through the gospels, to share our faith. I do not belong to a fundamentalist or strictly conservative church (Mosaic might be said by many to be too far the opposite), but the difference to the way that we preach, is that it is not done in a condemning manner, but in a manner of love, or Christlikeness. I have never been angry at anyone when sharing my faith and I know people appreciate it when I tell them the gospel (using the framework that WOTM teaches). You need to understand Steve, that ‘modeling Christ in ones daily life’ is doing exactly what Christ commanded, ie ‘go out into all the world…’. Christ on a daily basis spoke in parables so that the truth would be hidden from most that were listening, but explained to the disciples later on (lets see you try that one:)’). Christ spoke many times on heaven and hell, sin and repentance, loving ones neighbour, and the depravity of sin. WOTM has never ‘thumped people on the head with the 4 spiritual laws’ (thats campus crusade evangelism). The most amazing thing about Christs time on earth, is that he did not just ‘walk the walk’ but he ‘talked the talk’. So a question for you Steve is, ‘are you both walking and talking Christ’, because if you are only walking Christ (lifestyle evangelism), then your fruit is going to be hardly recognisable, but if you walk AND talk Christ, then you are going to truly bear a crop that is 30, 60 or 100 times that which was planted.
July 5th, 2008 at 06:07 am
if you are only walking Christ (lifestyle evangelism), then your fruit is going to be hardly recognisable, but if you walk AND talk Christ, then you are going to truly bear a crop that is 30, 60 or 100 times that which was planted.
Ryan:
Augustine said, “Preach the gospel, and if you must, use words.” Evangelicalism today is famous for ‘do as I say, not as I do.’ If Christ is not apparent in your life, your words will be meaningless. The one bit of advice I would give Christians is to get out of the pews and into the streets. Why have we left outreach to the liberal churches who preach a watered-down, barely present gospel? Street-corner preaching is interesting as entertainment, but not very effective in bringing the lost to Christ. Feed the hungy, comfort the afflicted and when they ask why you do it - and they will - say it’s because Christ is alive within you.
I’m not saying we should never preach. We should always stand read to give reason for the hope that lies within, but we get it backwards and throw bibles at people and then wonder why they don’t come to church.
July 21st, 2008 at 08:43 am
Did Augustine actually say that? I do know that it is attributed to St. Francis of Assissi … but maybe he was quoting Augustine?
I am following this post with interest, because I too, have some problems with the WOTM ‘program’. Good discussion here.
July 21st, 2008 at 09:20 am
Jonathan:
Good catch - that should have been attributed to Francis of Assisi.